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Post by William on Apr 17, 2013 13:18:27 GMT -5
I just want to gather everyone's political views to see where the clan stands as a whole. If you don't know exactly the difference, I'll provide a brief chart:
| Strong Government
| "Neutral" Government | Weak Government |
| Low Communitarianism | Left Libertarian | Libertarian | Right Libertarian | High Individualism | Moderate Communitarianism | Left Wing | Centrist | Right Wing | Moderate Individualism | High Communitarianism | Left Statist | Statist | Right Statist | Low Individualism |
| Common Ownership | "Neutral" Ownership | Individual Ownership |
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In that sense, I'll tell you mine. I could be considered Libertarian more than anything else. I'm probably right-leaning, but not by much.
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Post by Darin on Apr 17, 2013 13:22:45 GMT -5
This will be interesting!
I am holding off my vote for now since I will need to think about and consider which one I match up with the most.
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Post by William on Apr 17, 2013 13:28:32 GMT -5
Yeah, the chart I'm copying is a bit confusing. I don't understand what it means by Communitarianism and Individualism. It just has a big arrow and I don't understand it.
I think I figured it out.
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Post by Darin on Apr 17, 2013 13:39:04 GMT -5
OK here are the definitions: Communitarianism is an ideology that emphasizes the connection between the individual and the community. Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that emphasizes "the moral worth of the individual". Individualists promote the exercise of one's goals and desires and so value independence and self-reliance and advocate that interests of the individual should achieve precedence over the state or a social group, while opposing external interference upon one's own interests by society or institutions such as the government. So Communitarianism is more socialist, and Individualism is the whole "no one can tell me what to do". At least that's what I got out of it. So Communitarianism = more "liberal" and Individualism = more "conservative" (and you already know that I hate the misuse of those terms but oh well ).
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Post by Varangian on Apr 17, 2013 14:19:11 GMT -5
I think that those categories are quite limiting...
I'm a mildly anarchistic green-party member with a small leaning towards random stuff both on the right and left side.
Right and left is OUTDATED. It's limiting and not true.
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Post by William on Apr 17, 2013 14:35:44 GMT -5
Anarchist are Radical Right-Wing Libertarians. That chart fits most political views as it doesn't only have left vs right, but up vs down as well.
So, by the definition you just gave me, you are a Right-Wing Libertarian with specs of other things. You should base yourself on the majority of your views in this poll rather than be nit-picky.
Think "big picture".
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Post by Varangian on Apr 17, 2013 14:45:17 GMT -5
Greens also vary from country to country.
By finnish standards, I am left-neutral-right. Or rather, I'm "at the back".
Putting me to the right is actually quite insulting.
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Post by William on Apr 17, 2013 15:08:20 GMT -5
So you're a Centrist, by the new definition you gave me. Which Anarchist and Left-Neutral-Right are completely different...
Also, how is that insulting? You said you are an mild anarchist. So by the definition you gave me, mild anarchist, you are considered a Right-Wing Libertarian. What's actually insulting is you calling the right wing an insulting term.
Don't focus on parties. They're too dynamic and often times do not actually represent themselves on the political spectrum.
By the way, this is just a basic chart so just provide a basic answer.
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Post by Varangian on Apr 17, 2013 15:13:29 GMT -5
You make no sense.
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Post by William on Apr 17, 2013 15:20:39 GMT -5
Neither do you. You said that I'm a mildly anarchistic green-party member with a small leaning towards random stuff both on the right and left side. Anarchist (which is the only thing you provided that can be measured on the spectrum) are Radical Right-Wing Libertarians. So, since you seemed so confused on what to choose, I suggested that you would be considered as such. Then you said By finnish standards, I am left-neutral-right. Or rather, I'm "at the back". Left-Neutral-Right is considered a Centrist because they keep a balance of Left-Wing ideologies and Right-Wing ideologies as well. Then I stated that this was very confusing because you claimed to be from an extreme right view (Anarchist) then you claimed to be from a centrist view (Left-Neutral-Right). Also, for some reason you consider being right-wing an insult, even though you claim to be an anarchist or whatever now, which in itself is an insult on all right wingers.
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Post by Some Random DoF Guy on Apr 17, 2013 15:20:59 GMT -5
Nothing makes sense. Also, i have no idea what all of this means xD
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Post by William on Apr 17, 2013 15:22:33 GMT -5
Nothing makes sense. Also, i have no idea what all of this means xD Sounds like you would be impartial my friend xD
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Post by Some Random DoF Guy on Apr 17, 2013 18:08:45 GMT -5
Nothing makes sense. Also, i have no idea what all of this means xD Sounds like you would be impartial my friend xD So, kinda like every state nowadays (at least in my opinion)
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Post by Varangian on Apr 17, 2013 23:36:22 GMT -5
Neither do you. You said that I'm a mildly anarchistic green-party member with a small leaning towards random stuff both on the right and left side. Anarchist (which is the only thing you provided that can be measured on the spectrum) are Radical Right-Wing Libertarians. So, since you seemed so confused on what to choose, I suggested that you would be considered as such. Then you said By finnish standards, I am left-neutral-right. Or rather, I'm "at the back". Left-Neutral-Right is considered a Centrist because they keep a balance of Left-Wing ideologies and Right-Wing ideologies as well. Then I stated that this was very confusing because you claimed to be from an extreme right view (Anarchist) then you claimed to be from a centrist view (Left-Neutral-Right). Also, for some reason you consider being right-wing an insult, even though you claim to be an anarchist or whatever now, which in itself is an insult on all right wingers. right so you made me rage. Are you sure that the methods used in America, not to mention the right-to-left scaling's actual meaning, are not different from the ones in Finland? In Finland, the greens sit at the back, the socialists are on the left and the rich fucks and racist bastards are on the right. I've never heard of the table you posted, not to mention the term "communitarianism", though after looking its meaning up, I'd have to say that I'm either a Left Libertarian, Left Wing or a Libertarian with a slight leaning towards the left. I still support individualism, as do most of the leftists here in Finland, which is why this system doesn't really apply to people outside the United States.
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Post by William on Apr 18, 2013 11:21:25 GMT -5
Neither do you. You said that Anarchist (which is the only thing you provided that can be measured on the spectrum) are Radical Right-Wing Libertarians. So, since you seemed so confused on what to choose, I suggested that you would be considered as such. Then you said Left-Neutral-Right is considered a Centrist because they keep a balance of Left-Wing ideologies and Right-Wing ideologies as well. Then I stated that this was very confusing because you claimed to be from an extreme right view (Anarchist) then you claimed to be from a centrist view (Left-Neutral-Right). Also, for some reason you consider being right-wing an insult, even though you claim to be an anarchist or whatever now, which in itself is an insult on all right wingers. right so you made me rage. Are you sure that the methods used in America, not to mention the right-to-left scaling's actual meaning, are not different from the ones in Finland? In Finland, the greens sit at the back, the socialists are on the left and the rich f**ks and racist bastards are on the right. I've never heard of the table you posted, not to mention the term "communitarianism", though after looking its meaning up, I'd have to say that I'm either a Left Libertarian, Left Wing or a Libertarian with a slight leaning towards the left. I still support individualism, as do most of the leftists here in Finland, which is why this system doesn't really apply to people outside the United States. Oh, I think you may be reading the chart wrong. The Communitarianism and Individualism are only rated by the Up/Down chart. If you are higher up, you support Individualism, while if you lower down, you support Communitarianism. Left-Right doesn't affect Communitarianism/Individualism. The only things that are affect by left/right is Government Strength and Ownership of Enterprise. Basically, it doesn't matter where you are left/right. If you are up you support High Individualism and if you are down you support High Communitarianism. In the United States, its that same as you mentioned in Finland. Socialist are on the left while Fascist are on the right. Here are some parties on the chart:
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